SPEAKER_1: Coming up on StarTalk Special Edition, we're going to analyze the physics of that unstoppable play we've seen in the NFL called the Tush Push.
SPEAKER_1: Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide.
SPEAKER_1: StarTalk begins right now.
SPEAKER_1: This is StarTalk Special Edition.
SPEAKER_1: Neil deGrasse Tyson here, your personal astrophysicist.
SPEAKER_1: And with all special editions, of course, we've got Gary, Gary O'Reilly, former soccer pro, sorry, football pro in the UK, turned announcer.
SPEAKER_1: Is that where ex-players go?
SPEAKER_2: Sometimes you either go into coaching, which is a vocation and is a 28-hour-a-day job, or you end up behind a mic and hope you don't talk more gibberish than the other guy.
SPEAKER_1: Just a little less gibberish.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: All right.
SPEAKER_1: We're always delighted to have you here.
SPEAKER_1: Chuck, how you doing, man?
SPEAKER_3: All right, man.
SPEAKER_1: All right.
SPEAKER_3: Chuck Nice.
SPEAKER_1: How's the comedy thing going?
SPEAKER_3: You know, I got to tell you, like comedy should, awful.
SPEAKER_1: Sorry I asked.
SPEAKER_1: So, Gary, what did you put together for today?
SPEAKER_2: All right.
SPEAKER_2: So, you recently turned your gaze to illuminate terrestrial physics that exists in plain sight.
SPEAKER_2: So, until you…
SPEAKER_1: Because terrestrial, that's just Earth.
SPEAKER_1: Terra, that's like the Latin word for Earth.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, it is.
SPEAKER_1: And we have a word for the moon, too.
SPEAKER_1: It's called Luna.
SPEAKER_1: The word for the sun is called Sol.
SPEAKER_2: There you go.
SPEAKER_1: Nice.
SPEAKER_1: No, Sol, Chuck.
SPEAKER_1: Sol.
SPEAKER_2: All right.
SPEAKER_2: And so in doing this sort of illumination of terrestrial physics, you come up a bit later in the show, you'll get to it, a cosmic comparison.
SPEAKER_2: So keep an eye out for that one.
SPEAKER_2: And that got me thinking, where have we seen the laws of physics?
SPEAKER_2: Plenty of times the laws of physics used in many ways to gain success, to beat an opponent, to deliver something.
SPEAKER_1: Especially in an athletic podcast.
SPEAKER_2: But how often do we see the same laws of physics used to overcome the previous use of the laws of physics?
SPEAKER_1: Okay, a clever invocation perhaps.
SPEAKER_3: Physics battle!
SPEAKER_2: Exactly.
SPEAKER_2: So to bring this to life for this show, we go back to a StarTalk show you recorded in 2011 with a couple of the New York Giants.
SPEAKER_1: I remember that.
SPEAKER_1: They were in this office.
SPEAKER_1: There were three of them.
SPEAKER_1: There was no room for anybody else.
SPEAKER_2: And then we throw it forward to an interview you did with NFL Media last month or so of 2023 for The Tush Push.
SPEAKER_2: And you'll see how people were thinking back in 2011 and how they've thought about using laws of physics here in the present day.
SPEAKER_2: So let's play the first clip.
SPEAKER_1: There's no greater display of terrestrial physics than a game of football.
SPEAKER_5: No kidding.
SPEAKER_5: Why is that?
SPEAKER_1: Well, I mean, there's kinetic energy, there's potential energy, there's inertia.
SPEAKER_1: All the things you learn about in the first few weeks of mechanics in a physics class, there it is in football.
SPEAKER_1: And you see things like if a little person runs into a big person…
SPEAKER_5: It happens all the time.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, boy, the big person runs into the little person.
SPEAKER_1: These are not equal outcomes here.
SPEAKER_1: So you get to learn.
SPEAKER_1: And I always wondered, do the coaches, do the players, are they thinking about physics?
SPEAKER_1: Because if they did, you could become a better player and even a better team.
SPEAKER_2: So, once you open that avenue of thought, you don't unsee those things.
SPEAKER_2: You find them appear to you time and time again in a game of football.
SPEAKER_1: The world looks different when you're physics literate.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Look at that.
SPEAKER_1: That's a bumper sticker right there.
SPEAKER_3: That is a bumper sticker.
SPEAKER_3: Right next to, my kid's an honors student.
SPEAKER_1: No, my favorite bumper sticker is, my kid beat up your honors student.
SPEAKER_3: I have seen that.
SPEAKER_2: Oh dear.
SPEAKER_2: Bumper sticker envy.
SPEAKER_1: Alright.
SPEAKER_2: So, if you think like that, but then you put that thought process in a coach's mind, you're going to start seeing them apply certain aspects of the laws of physics.
SPEAKER_1: I don't see why they wouldn't.
SPEAKER_2: Now, what if the players themselves have already thought through this process, but then you amplify the whole thing by making them NFL grade, Super Bowl winning players?
SPEAKER_2: So, this is us going back now to 2011.
SPEAKER_2: When you sit down with three of the New York Giants, Jonathan Gough, Chase Blackburn and Travis Beckham.
SPEAKER_2: Now, Chase Blackburn is the owner of two Super Bowl rings.
SPEAKER_3: He didn't win them.
SPEAKER_3: He just owns them.
SPEAKER_3: He bought them on eBay.
SPEAKER_2: You'll like this because they beat the Patriots.
SPEAKER_2: Yes, they did.
SPEAKER_2: So, that's you going to be happy.
SPEAKER_2: Now, they're both linebackers, Jonathan Gough and Chase Blackburn.
SPEAKER_2: And let's listen to how they see tackling.
SPEAKER_1: Well, just remind me.
SPEAKER_1: They, in college, each of them majored in like engineering or math or physics, right?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_2: So, one's major in math.
SPEAKER_2: The other is a mechanical engineer.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_1: So, they have the geek underbelly that you would not otherwise know or even think to ask.
SPEAKER_3: I love it.
SPEAKER_1: When you see them on TV, you know, knocking folks out.
SPEAKER_2: This is why I wanted to play this clip.
SPEAKER_2: So, once you realize, then we're going to pick up something that you've been saying more recently.
SPEAKER_2: So, play the clip and we'll pick up on the back.
SPEAKER_1: Do you actually invoke laws of physics you learned in your engineering class to become a better linebacker?
SPEAKER_6: I could say, yeah, but it's actually something that you learn as a young football player, and that's the low man wins.
SPEAKER_1: Low man wins.
SPEAKER_1: I've heard that.
SPEAKER_6: Leverage.
SPEAKER_1: And so, you want to come in at what point in the person's body?
SPEAKER_6: You want your hat under their hat.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_1: We call them hats.
SPEAKER_6: Yes.
SPEAKER_1: How polite.
SPEAKER_1: My cap.
SPEAKER_1: Yes.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_1: So, you want your cap, your helmet under their helmet.
SPEAKER_1: What does that then do for you?
SPEAKER_6: It gives you better leverage and puts you in a better position.
SPEAKER_6: So, if you're a smaller guy, it puts you in a better position to control the blocker.
SPEAKER_1: And so, it helps if you can crouch a little lower than others can.
SPEAKER_6: Yes.
SPEAKER_1: So, why aren't people just slithering along the ground to get to their people's ankles?
SPEAKER_1: You got as low as humanly possible.
SPEAKER_6: You get some power.
SPEAKER_1: Well, you start losing power when you get real low.
SPEAKER_1: So, whatever is the best combination of how low you get, you still get to use your leg strength.
SPEAKER_6: With the speed coming down, you obviously meet force to force when you come out.
SPEAKER_6: That's where I come from.
SPEAKER_5: A lot of people think that it's your upper body, it's really your legs and what you have underneath them.
SPEAKER_1: So, Jonathan, tell me about leg power.
SPEAKER_1: If you're going to block someone, the most obvious thing you're using is your upper body.
SPEAKER_1: So, how do the legs play out?
SPEAKER_6: Your legs and your hips, those are the most important things.
SPEAKER_6: But that's where you generate all of your power, all of your momentum, that gets started with your legs.
SPEAKER_6: You don't need to have phenomenal bench press to be able to deliver those big hits or to create separation between yourself and a blocker.
SPEAKER_6: It all starts with your legs.
SPEAKER_6: And if you can get good acceleration with your legs going, then everything else comes.
SPEAKER_2: So, throw it forward now to the Philadelphia Eagles.
SPEAKER_3: Right, which if you're from Philly, it's the brotherly shove, not the tush push.
SPEAKER_2: Alright, so let's get to the next clip, because what you've heard those NFL players from the New York Giants discuss…
SPEAKER_1: In 2011.
SPEAKER_2: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: Now has new meaning and resonance in the current game.
SPEAKER_2: Because they've looked at what they knew and how they got the right…
SPEAKER_2: To the point where they even realize, I can be too low and lose the energy and the power I need to execute.
SPEAKER_2: Now you get to sit down with Kyle Brandt from NFL Media.
SPEAKER_3: Good morning, football.
SPEAKER_3: We should give them a shout out.
SPEAKER_2: Alright.
SPEAKER_3: That's the show.
SPEAKER_3: It's a great show.
SPEAKER_2: So there you are.
SPEAKER_2: Shout out, done.
SPEAKER_3: That was the most explicit shout out I've ever heard.
SPEAKER_3: Shout out, done.
SPEAKER_1: That's the most affection a Brit can show.
SPEAKER_1: We've got to accept that one.
SPEAKER_2: Alright.
SPEAKER_2: So you sit down with Carl from Good Morning Football, and you get into the science of the tush-push or rudderly shove.
SPEAKER_2: Now, we're going to get into why it's called that and not the other.
SPEAKER_2: So play the next clip, and then we'll go from there.
SPEAKER_5: Well, this is interesting because we're seeing this in the NFL.
SPEAKER_5: The Eagles will come up to the ball.
SPEAKER_5: Everybody knows what they're doing.
SPEAKER_5: They've spent all week practicing against it, and they can't stop it.
SPEAKER_5: You live life where people are going around asking you questions about everything in the universe.
SPEAKER_5: I'm asking you today, can we figure out a way to stop the Eagles at the goal line?
SPEAKER_1: You're talking about the tush-push.
SPEAKER_5: Well, it's glad you mentioned that.
SPEAKER_5: Let's set the table with this.
SPEAKER_5: Do you prefer tush-push or brotherly shove?
SPEAKER_1: So, I don't know how many people outside of Philadelphia know that Philadelphia is the city of brotherly love.
SPEAKER_1: They all know it.
SPEAKER_1: And then there's a sort of fall-off factor as the distance increases.
SPEAKER_1: Go to someone in Utah.
SPEAKER_1: Philadelphia, the city of...
SPEAKER_1: Climb.
SPEAKER_3: I don't know what they're going to start with.
SPEAKER_3: Cheese steaks.
SPEAKER_1: Cheese steaks.
SPEAKER_1: So, the brotherly shove, of course, is a more G-rated version of it.
SPEAKER_1: But I don't know how widely known or embraced that can be, since it's a very local comment.
SPEAKER_1: But the tush push that is so quaint and you get it all completely done within two syllables.
SPEAKER_1: Brevity matters.
SPEAKER_5: Is wit.
SPEAKER_1: OK.
SPEAKER_5: That's what they say.
SPEAKER_1: And I'm sorry my letter T was so long, I ran out of time to make it short.
SPEAKER_2: Who is that quote?
SPEAKER_1: Several people have been credited with that quote.
SPEAKER_2: That's a good one.
SPEAKER_2: So, what do you feel?
SPEAKER_3: Well, first of all, let me just say that I really appreciate all the love that you guys were showing to Philly, the city of crime and obesity.
SPEAKER_3: Excess cheesesteak consumption.
SPEAKER_3: No, but that makes sense.
SPEAKER_3: I mean, Philly is not necessarily known as the city of brotherly love in every part of the world.
SPEAKER_3: So, tush push, you know exactly what you're talking about.
SPEAKER_3: Everybody knows what we're talking about.
SPEAKER_1: But Gary, you were brilliant in your edits here because I did not remember from 2011 how much of that conversation presaged.
SPEAKER_1: Is that a right word?
SPEAKER_3: I don't even know.
SPEAKER_3: It's out there now.
SPEAKER_1: Presaged.
SPEAKER_1: So, it's the foundational physics to what is going on in a tush push.
SPEAKER_1: They described it one on one.
SPEAKER_1: But now when you band together an entire front line, oh my gosh, you have an unstoppable plow.
SPEAKER_3: And the whole idea behind the tush push is when you see them, the eagle's front line, they're lower than the defense.
SPEAKER_3: That's the whole thing.
SPEAKER_3: They're just lower than the defense.
SPEAKER_1: But that's just the beginning.
SPEAKER_3: That's the beginning.
SPEAKER_2: But you have to have the thought process in place.
SPEAKER_2: And then you're looking at it, as you said, in a one to one tackle.
SPEAKER_2: Then you're saying, well, in a certain situation, that one to one aspect doesn't generally end up in guaranteed success.
SPEAKER_2: This now puts it in a situation where it does.
SPEAKER_2: So you're taking the thinking and you're amplifying it in terms of the numbers.
SPEAKER_2: Obviously, the distance isn't that great, but you're not needing to go that far.
SPEAKER_2: You just need that, as you said, to have the mechanics in place to make it happen.
SPEAKER_1: In fact, in most of the replays of tush pushes I've seen, where they had to get one yard, two yards, at the end of the play, the ball's five yards farther down.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah.
SPEAKER_3: Those were the days before their epic debacle.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, you're talking about the Eagles.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_1: They were like headed for the Super Bowl.
SPEAKER_1: For a minute, yeah.
SPEAKER_3: Then the worst record in football.
SPEAKER_4: I'm Nicholas Costella, and I'm a proud supporter of StarTalk on Patreon.
SPEAKER_4: This is StarTalk with Neil deGrasse Tyson.
SPEAKER_2: So, the next clip is fascinating.
SPEAKER_2: You take the Tushkush and you make a cosmic comparison, which I would say is out of this world, but you wouldn't.
SPEAKER_2: So, let's listen to the tape.
SPEAKER_2: We'll pick it up.
SPEAKER_1: Just because I think I have better sentence composition.
SPEAKER_2: Well, I headed a soccer ball too many times.
SPEAKER_2: Leave me alone.
SPEAKER_1: Before they change the head rules in soccer.
SPEAKER_2: Okay, let's play the tape.
SPEAKER_2: We'll pick up on the other side.
SPEAKER_1: If I can get cosmic on you, just for a minute.
SPEAKER_2: Please do.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, there's certain phenomena in the universe that once they pass a tipping point, there is no stopping.
SPEAKER_1: One of them is when a star manufactures elements in its core.
SPEAKER_1: This is the thermonuclear fusion that builds elements from hydrogen right up to iron.
SPEAKER_1: When it gets to iron, it can't generate energy anymore.
SPEAKER_1: And in that moment, the entire star collapses and nothing can stop it, okay?
SPEAKER_1: And it gets down to a tiny little ball and then it recoils in a titanic explosion we call a supernova.
SPEAKER_1: That is an inevitable consequence of that scenario.
SPEAKER_1: And you know another one?
SPEAKER_1: If it has much more mass than that star, on the collapse, an explosion won't even happen because the gravity wins and it becomes, guess what?
SPEAKER_1: A black hole.
SPEAKER_1: For a certain amount of mass, a black hole is inevitable, an inevitable consequence of that scenario.
SPEAKER_1: This was demonstrated mathematically.
SPEAKER_1: A Nobel Prize was given for that demonstration.
SPEAKER_1: And what I'm telling you now is when I think of these phenomena in the universe, when they hit a tipping point and they just go and there's nothing the rest of the universe can say or do about it, when the Eagles line up in the tush-push configuration, two men behind the quarterback, one ready for each butt-cheek, just hang it up.
SPEAKER_1: Just say, all right, it's like in baseball.
SPEAKER_1: They stop throwing four pitches for the walk, all right, for the intentional walk.
SPEAKER_1: They just go do this and they walk.
SPEAKER_1: Just do it.
SPEAKER_5: It's faster.
SPEAKER_1: It's faster.
SPEAKER_1: So Eagles here, here, you got the six points.
SPEAKER_5: Take it.
SPEAKER_1: Take it.
SPEAKER_5: Take the six.
SPEAKER_1: Take the six and let's move on.
SPEAKER_2: So if we continue this thinking about the mass of a star, and I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say Taylor Swift is probably the biggest star on the planet.
SPEAKER_2: During the halftime entertainment, if she has a meltdown, are we gonna get a supernova or are we gonna get some other cosmic occurrence?
SPEAKER_1: I mean, if the chiefs are behind at halftime.
SPEAKER_1: Whatever she's doing, the cameras will catch it for sure.
SPEAKER_3: And Fox News will have a supernova.
SPEAKER_2: But is it to this point now where if we've evolved how we use the laws of physics to achieve tush push, and you're now looking at it and going, no stop in this, are we not looking at it in the right way to overcome this?
SPEAKER_1: So here's what I would say.
SPEAKER_1: Eagles were, I think, the number was 95% effective.
SPEAKER_1: Other teams, not so much.
SPEAKER_3: Right.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, this is my analysis of what I've seen.
SPEAKER_1: That other teams saw what the Eagles were doing, but didn't understand the physics of it.
SPEAKER_1: So they just kind of imitated the look of the tush push, but not the physics of it.
SPEAKER_1: And as a result, they could not execute it as effectively as the Eagles had.
SPEAKER_3: In the words of Eagles coach Nick Sirianni, if other teams could do it, they would.
SPEAKER_3: That's what he said, like don't, because they were talking about whether or not they should remove it from football altogether.
SPEAKER_3: And he was like, let's be honest, if other teams could do it, they would.
SPEAKER_1: So Kyle asked me, he said, should the NFL ban the move?
SPEAKER_1: Ban the move, the ban the play?
SPEAKER_1: And I said, what?
SPEAKER_1: Why are they thinking?
SPEAKER_1: Because it's so effective for one team?
SPEAKER_2: Isn't this the nature of sport, where if you devise a way to overcome an opponent, someone then has to find the kryptonite for that?
SPEAKER_1: And Kyle asked me, do I know of a counter to this move?
SPEAKER_1: And my answer was, no, I cannot think of one.
SPEAKER_1: If it's properly executed where all the physics is happening the way intended, I don't see.
SPEAKER_3: So if teams were smart, what they would do is find video of that 5% and then study that 5%, study the hell out of it, and then try to mimic whatever that 5% was, whatever those defenses were doing where it didn't work at that point, try to make that the way you handle the test.
SPEAKER_1: I would say it's not, I haven't seen the 5%, but I would guess that in those 5%, the eagles didn't do it right.
SPEAKER_3: The eagles didn't execute properly.
SPEAKER_1: Correct.
SPEAKER_3: Right.
SPEAKER_1: Rather than the other team.
SPEAKER_3: Overcoming the actual mechanics of the test.
SPEAKER_2: Basically user error.
SPEAKER_1: Yes.
SPEAKER_2: Thank you.
SPEAKER_2: I couldn't hear the cogs in Neil's brain turning there, but they were.
SPEAKER_2: They definitely were.
SPEAKER_1: An IO error, incompetent operator.
SPEAKER_3: I like that.
SPEAKER_3: Except when I'm flying.
SPEAKER_2: We've tiptoed around the edges a little bit, but now let's sort of, and we've kind of worked out that it's going to be called the tush push.
SPEAKER_2: And we've worked out also through listening, it's unstoppable more or less.
SPEAKER_2: But we need to know the science.
SPEAKER_2: And I think if you listen carefully, you'll be able to hear Carl Brandt's head exploding.
SPEAKER_2: Right at the end.
SPEAKER_2: Play the tape.
SPEAKER_5: So Neil, this is Super Bowl 57, Eagles chiefs on the goal line.
SPEAKER_5: What's happening here?
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, so what's happening is the Eagles are about to lay down a moving carpet, a moving carpet for the quarterback.
SPEAKER_1: So they're getting his lowest possible, the chiefs know that.
SPEAKER_1: Look at the guy right there, his helmet's the lowest helmet there.
SPEAKER_1: But the Eagles, just pause for a moment right here, just pause, the Eagles have the advantage because they're hiking.
SPEAKER_1: And no one on the chiefs can move until after the Eagles move.
SPEAKER_1: And so the Eagles get like a quarter second head start in momentum transfer, okay?
SPEAKER_1: So the Eagles are already in motion and look how low the helmets are.
SPEAKER_1: They're ready to lay down a carpet.
SPEAKER_1: That entire front line is attached to earth and they're pressing against earth the entire time.
SPEAKER_1: Even though they're flattened, because there's other big players on top of them, you can take a look, watch what happens, okay?
SPEAKER_1: So just watch the Eagles legs.
SPEAKER_1: They are constantly moving.
SPEAKER_1: And you see turf getting kicked up, okay?
SPEAKER_1: They are using earth as a launch point for their movement.
SPEAKER_1: Not a launch point, because that implies they would lead.
SPEAKER_1: As a traction point for everything they're about to do.
SPEAKER_1: In fact, if you run the math on this, every time the Eagle runs this play, it slightly changes the rotation of the earth.
SPEAKER_5: Tell me more.
SPEAKER_1: I'm just telling you.
SPEAKER_5: Tell me more.
SPEAKER_5: Don't leave it at that.
SPEAKER_5: They're changing the earth.
SPEAKER_1: One of Newton's laws is for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction.
SPEAKER_1: You cannot just propel yourself forward unless something comes out the other side.
SPEAKER_1: That's why rockets, there's always rocket exhaust coming out the other side.
SPEAKER_1: Because then the rocket goes this way, the exhaust goes this way, the rocket goes that way.
SPEAKER_1: As they are digging into the earth, earth is responding to them by having its rotation rate change because they are bracing themselves against the rotating earth.
SPEAKER_1: We don't think about it that way, but that's exactly what's happening here.
SPEAKER_1: That's where they get the traction.
SPEAKER_5: We think about it that way now.
SPEAKER_5: That's what blew my mind.
SPEAKER_2: So you went and blew this guy's head off his shoulders, which is fine because that was necessary.
SPEAKER_2: He needed to understand what is going on.
SPEAKER_2: But if you...
SPEAKER_1: But I have to just to be clear, what I don't think made it into their final edit for NFL production is you can calculate how much the rotation of the Earth changes, but you're not going to measure it.
SPEAKER_1: It's too small.
SPEAKER_1: Plus, the other team is also pushing against you in the exact opposite direction.
SPEAKER_1: So a lot of that momentum gets canceled.
SPEAKER_1: But the one that wins, the ones that actually do successfully move forward, they're the ones that have successfully changed Earth's rotation I don't want to say in their own favor, but they're the ones with the bigger effect on Earth's rotation than the ones who lost to that encounter at the goal line stand.
SPEAKER_2: For me, as a former professional athlete, I'm always looking at advantage.
SPEAKER_2: Where can I get it?
SPEAKER_2: How can I get it?
SPEAKER_2: Is it train harder?
SPEAKER_2: Is it put more muscle on?
SPEAKER_2: Is it cheap?
SPEAKER_2: How am I looking at how this pans out?
SPEAKER_2: And you said something interesting.
SPEAKER_2: The Eagles have that advantage because they're hiking.
SPEAKER_2: Now, for me, anyone who's defending their endzone from a play like this from a yard out can only kind of get to compete if they've got quicker reflexes.
SPEAKER_2: Now, is that even possible for that to happen?
SPEAKER_2: Because if they go too soon, they're not playing.
SPEAKER_3: For you, the more apt comparison would be, what's a kick where it's just the goalie and the…
SPEAKER_2: The penalty kick.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, so in that circumstance, the goalies really just have to guess where he's…
SPEAKER_3: Where the guy's going to kick.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, and the thing is, the goalkeepers in the soccer, in the football, our football, with the round ball, they will study the penalty takers.
SPEAKER_3: Right.
SPEAKER_2: They will now look at whether that player is right or left footed.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_2: They will know that.
SPEAKER_2: They will know that the predisposition for a right footed player is to go to the goalkeeper's right, the kicker's left.
SPEAKER_2: They will have all of this information, but then the tricky stuff starts.
SPEAKER_3: Right.
SPEAKER_2: Then the touch push isn't so much a tricky play.
SPEAKER_3: No, I'm just talking about this one part of it, which is, and you will hear defensive players in the NFL talk about this, even on regular snap counts, is timing.
SPEAKER_3: You try to time their snap.
SPEAKER_3: And one of the things that Eagles started doing this year is varying the snap because they realized that other teams were starting to telegraph.
SPEAKER_3: So what they would do is they would do their normal count, and then they would wait two beats and then snap.
SPEAKER_3: Possibly draw them offside.
SPEAKER_3: Possibly draw them and get the penalty, and then you don't even need the touch push.
SPEAKER_1: If it's for a first down.
SPEAKER_1: Otherwise just halfway to the goal line.
SPEAKER_2: The other thing is if you're drawing a defensive lineman.
SPEAKER_1: Aren't you proud of me for how much football I have?
SPEAKER_1: No, I'm like, what?
SPEAKER_1: Just as an astrophysicist.
SPEAKER_2: You're just not.
SPEAKER_2: It's not just.
SPEAKER_2: Not that you needed bigging up.
SPEAKER_2: So if you can draw a lineman forward, you're changing the center of gravity.
SPEAKER_2: The weight is in, so you can't then move as easily.
SPEAKER_2: If you can then move it laterally.
SPEAKER_1: So this little advantage that you're trying to find, like with the penalty kick, half of that's first basis of knowledge of the behavior of that kicker, but also there's a little bit of a mind game going on.
SPEAKER_1: In the tush push, that's not a mind game.
SPEAKER_2: No.
SPEAKER_1: It does not require the mind.
SPEAKER_1: But if you're the defenders, like you said, if I can anticipate the hike, then I can move exactly on the hike.
SPEAKER_3: And then you don't get that fraction of a second advantage.
SPEAKER_2: But that only works if everyone in unison…
SPEAKER_1: If everyone does that.
SPEAKER_2: And the chances of that happening are a lot less.
SPEAKER_1: Zero, I would say.
SPEAKER_1: That's how much less it is.
SPEAKER_2: So we're kind of getting to the point now why it works.
SPEAKER_2: And…
SPEAKER_1: Yes, because Earth is…
SPEAKER_1: If you're not attached to the Earth, you're just a floating object.
SPEAKER_2: All right, the next clip you're going to expand.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, I get that.
SPEAKER_2: So why it works, here's you talking again to Kyle Brant from NFL Media, who has had his head exploded, as we've discussed, and you've pieced him back together again, and you carried on your conversation.
SPEAKER_1: Here's why this works.
SPEAKER_1: So, the urge is to say…
SPEAKER_1: Because you know the quarterback is going to go over the backs of his players.
SPEAKER_1: And you've got one player on each side ready to push on a butt cheek.
SPEAKER_1: Hence, the tush push.
SPEAKER_1: All right.
SPEAKER_1: Here's what's going on.
SPEAKER_1: I'm on the opposing team, and you've just laid down people plowing into me.
SPEAKER_1: I want to jump over you.
SPEAKER_1: Because the quarterback is ready to come over.
SPEAKER_1: So I jump over you, and you know what happens if you jump over?
SPEAKER_1: You're no longer connected to the earth.
SPEAKER_5: So that's a disadvantage.
SPEAKER_1: Yes!
SPEAKER_1: If you're not connected to the earth, you've got nothing to press against.
SPEAKER_5: So these guys try all the time to jump over the top.
SPEAKER_5: They should not do that?
SPEAKER_1: I'm saying watch what happens if you leave the seed number 22.
SPEAKER_5: Yeah, I want that.
SPEAKER_1: Watch what happens to him.
SPEAKER_1: Boom!
SPEAKER_1: He's just, he jumps thinking that matters.
SPEAKER_1: He wasn't connected to the earth, so the biggest force he can apply is his body weight.
SPEAKER_1: But if you're connected to the earth, these guys can bench press whatever, deadlift, okay?
SPEAKER_1: When you're bench pressing and deadlifting, you're attached to the earth when you're doing this, okay?
SPEAKER_1: So if someone is floating over the top, you can just swap them out of the way if you're connected to the earth.
SPEAKER_1: Let's look at 22 again.
SPEAKER_1: He thinks he's got this.
SPEAKER_1: Boom, boom!
SPEAKER_1: Look at that!
SPEAKER_5: He gets blasted.
SPEAKER_1: It gets blasted back.
SPEAKER_5: Yes.
SPEAKER_1: He's completely ineffective because all of these guys can easily just push him when he is airborne.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, that's the funniest thing when you look at this play.
SPEAKER_3: And that's so great.
SPEAKER_3: It's when the guys try to go up over the top.
SPEAKER_3: They end up crowd surfing.
SPEAKER_2: It's true.
SPEAKER_1: They're just sort of floating there.
SPEAKER_3: And they're getting pushed back.
SPEAKER_3: And just laying on top of other guys.
SPEAKER_1: They got nothing.
SPEAKER_3: It's great.
SPEAKER_2: But you've got these extremely powerful and explosive athletes.
SPEAKER_2: But as soon as they lose the connection to us...
SPEAKER_1: All they have is their body weight.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: And the body weight of any football player is push away-able by the strength of any other football player.
SPEAKER_2: Right.
SPEAKER_2: It's not something...
SPEAKER_1: It's basically a bench press, right?
SPEAKER_1: So if I see you coming over, you're 250 pounds, and I'm attached to the earth, I just press you out of the way, and there's nothing you can do about it.
SPEAKER_2: All I need to do if you're airborne is just deflect you.
SPEAKER_1: That as well.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Provided you're attached to the earth.
SPEAKER_3: Right.
SPEAKER_1: Deflection is easier than completely stopping their momentum.
SPEAKER_3: Exactly.
SPEAKER_2: So...
SPEAKER_1: And so the quarterback has two players pushing him.
SPEAKER_3: Right.
SPEAKER_1: And if they can each bench press 300 pounds, that's 600 pounds of force directed, and you're airborne on the other side.
SPEAKER_1: You ain't got nothing.
SPEAKER_1: What's this?
SPEAKER_1: He could squat?
SPEAKER_1: What is it?
SPEAKER_3: 600 pounds is what they say he can squat.
SPEAKER_1: So my boy's got some quads on him.
SPEAKER_3: He's got some quads on him.
SPEAKER_3: So when they first start pushing, and they're all connected to the ground...
SPEAKER_1: All three of them.
SPEAKER_3: All three of them.
SPEAKER_1: Each butt cheek pusher plus the quarterback.
SPEAKER_3: Plus the quarterback.
SPEAKER_1: You got some good force there.
SPEAKER_3: That's a lot of force.
SPEAKER_1: But at some point, he's got to leave the ground.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, he's got to leave the ground.
SPEAKER_1: And then none of that matters.
SPEAKER_3: Right.
SPEAKER_1: And all that matters is how much can the other two guys...
SPEAKER_3: Exactly.
SPEAKER_2: At that moment, he's crowd surfing.
SPEAKER_3: Yes.
SPEAKER_1: Yes, but he's...
SPEAKER_3: But crowd surfing with somebody behind him.
SPEAKER_2: So this, for those listeners who are familiar with the sport of rugby, is straight out of Rugby Playbook.
SPEAKER_2: So you have a scrum, and you have a maul and a ruck, and they will drive...
SPEAKER_1: Speak English, please.
SPEAKER_2: That is the terminology of rugby.
SPEAKER_2: I make this, it's not a word salad.
SPEAKER_3: And that is why nobody plays rugby.
SPEAKER_2: They're every bit as big as the football guys.
SPEAKER_3: Nobody wants to be in a scrum, nobody wants to get mauled, and nobody wants a ruck.
SPEAKER_3: Whatever a ruck is.
SPEAKER_2: So what they do is they push the very same way, connected to the ground, and they move the ball along, but with feet.
SPEAKER_2: They just sort of just tap it, tap it, tap it.
SPEAKER_2: And they can accrue distance by doing that.
SPEAKER_2: I mean, not talking a 30, 40-yard play.
SPEAKER_1: So it's a human plow.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, it's a human plow.
SPEAKER_3: Until the ball pops out of it for some reason.
SPEAKER_1: Which I never understood.
SPEAKER_3: I never understood that either.
SPEAKER_1: And they're all still there.
SPEAKER_3: And they're all still in the huddle, crowd, scrum, whatever.
SPEAKER_2: Because the ball comes out of the scrum to the back.
SPEAKER_1: Wait, wait, some magic force pulls it out of the scrum?
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, how does the ball get out of the scrum?
SPEAKER_3: Does somebody hike it out of the scrum?
SPEAKER_3: Like football?
SPEAKER_2: No, they use the force.
SPEAKER_1: Not A force, the force.
SPEAKER_2: The force.
SPEAKER_2: This is not the ball you're looking for.
SPEAKER_2: So you have a certain player who reaches in timely, and grabs it, and then they field it out to the backs.
SPEAKER_2: And then the backs are the ones who do the runs.
SPEAKER_2: Wow.
SPEAKER_1: So rugby playbook here.
SPEAKER_2: That's where this move is kind of like originated from.
SPEAKER_2: Alright, so we now get to our next clip, which is Kyle Brandt, as we said from the NFL, asking you what you would do if Kansas City Chiefs head coach Andy Reid came knocking on your door asking for a solution.
SPEAKER_2: Take a listen.
SPEAKER_5: How do we stop it?
SPEAKER_5: What would be your advice?
SPEAKER_5: Get more players on the field?
SPEAKER_1: Build a wall?
SPEAKER_6: Park the bus in front of it?
SPEAKER_5: Great.
SPEAKER_1: This may be a literal unstoppable force, which have always been used figuratively.
SPEAKER_1: Unstoppable force, immovable object.
SPEAKER_1: This is a moving reference frame.
SPEAKER_1: And by the way, while the guys are plowing here, because you see, I mean, it's very impressive.
SPEAKER_1: These are big guys.
SPEAKER_1: Big guys.
SPEAKER_1: And you see these leg muscles just turning through.
SPEAKER_1: And the evidence of that was all the turf getting kicked up.
SPEAKER_1: They're not going fast, right?
SPEAKER_1: They're going slow.
SPEAKER_1: But the force is huge.
SPEAKER_1: And so, and look at, they knew what they, oh, the Chew's love.
SPEAKER_5: Beautiful message.
SPEAKER_3: Thank you, Dallas Goddard.
SPEAKER_1: After we just smothered.
SPEAKER_5: Chew's love.
SPEAKER_1: Chew's love.
SPEAKER_1: So look at the guy who's lowest here, who's on the catch.
SPEAKER_1: See him right there?
SPEAKER_5: Yeah, he's right on the ball.
SPEAKER_1: So he knows what's about to happen.
SPEAKER_1: So, but again, he doesn't get first jumps.
SPEAKER_1: The Eagles get first jumps.
SPEAKER_1: So he's really low and is basically not relevant because everyone is on top of him still plowing forward.
SPEAKER_1: And he shows up at the end, you know, he emerges out on the other side.
SPEAKER_1: So watch, watch this happen.
SPEAKER_1: There's the snap.
SPEAKER_1: See, there's a delay.
SPEAKER_1: There's like a half second delay.
SPEAKER_1: And so now that guy, his head will show up, connected to his body, of course, somewhere.
SPEAKER_1: We'll see him.
SPEAKER_1: Where is he?
SPEAKER_1: And this 54 getting taken out.
SPEAKER_5: 54 is out, 22 is out.
SPEAKER_1: And as we plow, we reveal the head.
SPEAKER_5: And there he is.
SPEAKER_5: It's Frank Clark.
SPEAKER_5: Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_1: So he said, well, let me get in there first.
SPEAKER_1: And the moving carpet for the eagles just went right over him.
SPEAKER_1: His head pops out.
SPEAKER_1: But the entire reference frame was in motion.
SPEAKER_1: So the reference frame, speaking of physics, the reference frame is if you move with something that is in motion, then you can reinterpret everything that's happening around you.
SPEAKER_1: So I'll give an example.
SPEAKER_1: Have you ever been on a freeway and there are a couple of cars that are chasing each other and they just whiz right by you?
SPEAKER_1: You've seen this happen.
SPEAKER_1: It's very dangerous.
SPEAKER_1: But it's actually less dangerous than it looks because all the rest of you are doing 55 miles an hour.
SPEAKER_1: They're doing 80 miles an hour.
SPEAKER_1: So, as far as they're concerned, you are standing still and they're driving 25 miles an hour around you.
SPEAKER_3: Tell that to the police.
SPEAKER_1: That's what I love to say.
SPEAKER_1: So, if you have the moving reference frame of all the traffic, they're actually only going slightly faster than you as though you were standing still as they maneuver in and around the open spots between your cars.
SPEAKER_1: Right, it wouldn't work in the court of law, but that's what's actually happening there.
SPEAKER_1: So, if you have a moving reference frame, I'm referring to the moving plow, this moving carpet.
SPEAKER_1: If the camera just follows it, you just see things like the guy who tried to go the other way, his head emerges on the other side, and by the time they unpeel the pile, the ball's five yards beyond the target.
SPEAKER_2: See, we can't go around the outside.
SPEAKER_2: No, you don't have time.
SPEAKER_2: Exactly.
SPEAKER_2: Going over the top, you get swatted away.
SPEAKER_2: It is the irresistible force.
SPEAKER_2: It is this thing that you can't stop.
SPEAKER_2: So, okay, it's like any science project has to end in a conclusion.
SPEAKER_3: The conclusion is, we're going to build a wall, and the Eagles are going to pay for it.
SPEAKER_3: Philadelphia, paying for the wall.
SPEAKER_3: It's going to be a big, beautiful, beautiful wall.
SPEAKER_2: So, we'll discuss colorways for this wall, as and when.
SPEAKER_1: It's the Trump defense.
SPEAKER_2: You look at this and you say, okay, so we can't do anything about it.
SPEAKER_2: And you said just earlier on, the NFL were thinking of maybe banning it.
SPEAKER_2: But that goes against the spirit of the game.
SPEAKER_1: Completely.
SPEAKER_1: I think it would be short-changing fans who go to see excellence in whatever form it manifests.
SPEAKER_3: Also, it's a lot of fun if you're not an Eagles fan to see whether or not your team is going to be the one to stop it.
SPEAKER_1: And then that's the headline the next day.
SPEAKER_3: There you go.
SPEAKER_1: But just because you see excellence, are we going to say Michael Phelps with his how many?
SPEAKER_1: Eight gold medals?
SPEAKER_1: We have to ban him from the Olympics because he's winning too much?
SPEAKER_3: He is part dolphin.
SPEAKER_3: So, cheater.
SPEAKER_2: Mixed mammals.
SPEAKER_2: So, no, I just look at it and I think, let it happen.
SPEAKER_2: Because we've had the earlier discussion from the guys who were the New York Giants about how they saw it as an individual.
SPEAKER_2: We're now analyzing a whole offensive line, working in unison, applying the laws of physics, but taking...
SPEAKER_1: Working organically.
SPEAKER_2: Right, but knowing that any defensive line they face is going to go low, they end up going above it and then driving them even lower, so they're on the ground, so therefore they lose a lot of their energy.
SPEAKER_1: If you're completely flattened, then you can't push against the earth.
SPEAKER_1: Exactly.
SPEAKER_1: So you have to maintain enough distance between your torso and the ground so that you can lift your knees up and press against the earth and push.
SPEAKER_1: Right.
SPEAKER_1: So you can't just go flat.
SPEAKER_2: But then you're being driven down, so therefore you're taking away that ability to drive with your legs.
SPEAKER_2: It's just the use of the laws of physics in a higher way to negate people using laws of physics to try and stop you.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, I just think Chuck has the answer.
SPEAKER_1: You just have to build a wall.
SPEAKER_2: There you go.
SPEAKER_1: And make the Eagles pay for it.
SPEAKER_2: That's basically it then.
SPEAKER_1: I think we've solved this problem.
SPEAKER_2: We have.
SPEAKER_2: We just need a bricklayer.
SPEAKER_1: So what's our vote here?
SPEAKER_1: Tush Push or Brotherly Shove?
SPEAKER_3: You know, I came in with Brotherly Shove, but I don't...
SPEAKER_1: As a Philadelphia native.
SPEAKER_3: As a Philadelphia native.
SPEAKER_3: But I'm okay with Tush Push outside of Philly.
SPEAKER_2: I'm with Chuck.
SPEAKER_2: I think if you're from Philly, you call it whatever you like.
SPEAKER_2: If it's from outside of Philly and you want to call it Tush Push, I think that resonates and is short and sweet, as it were.
SPEAKER_1: So yeah, I'm all in.
SPEAKER_1: And it's been a while since we had a new play invented.
SPEAKER_2: It's not a trick play.
SPEAKER_1: And it's not a trick play.
SPEAKER_1: And I'm trying to…
SPEAKER_1: I wondered what was the first day in baseball someone bunted the ball.
SPEAKER_3: Wow.
SPEAKER_1: That would have been wild.
SPEAKER_3: I'm sure all the other players were like, what did he just do?
SPEAKER_3: What do we do?
SPEAKER_3: Hey man, go get the ball!
SPEAKER_1: Go get the ball!
SPEAKER_1: Is it illegal?
SPEAKER_1: Hit the bat?
SPEAKER_1: Like things…
SPEAKER_1: Another one that would have been the alley-oop in basketball.
SPEAKER_1: Exactly.
SPEAKER_1: Right?
SPEAKER_1: You throw the ball…
SPEAKER_3: What kind of shot was that?
SPEAKER_3: Oh my God!
SPEAKER_3: Did that other guy just stuff it into the rim?
SPEAKER_1: Right, right.
SPEAKER_1: The guy grabbed it before it touched anything.
SPEAKER_1: Isn't there a traveling call?
SPEAKER_1: No.
SPEAKER_3: It's just a pass.
SPEAKER_1: It's just a pass.
SPEAKER_1: And so the invention of a new move.
SPEAKER_3: Damn alley-oop.
SPEAKER_3: That's what we get for letting these black guys in the game.
SPEAKER_1: So are we done here?
SPEAKER_3: We done.
SPEAKER_1: We done.
SPEAKER_1: Chuck, we done.
SPEAKER_3: We're all tush-pushed out.
SPEAKER_1: Tushed out.
SPEAKER_1: All right.
SPEAKER_1: This has been another installment of StarTalk Special Edition.
SPEAKER_1: All about the tush-push.
SPEAKER_1: Chuck, Gary, always good to have you.
SPEAKER_1: It's Neil deGrasse Tyson here as always.