SPEAKER_1: Welcome to StarTalk, your place in the universe where science and pop culture collide.
SPEAKER_1: StarTalk begins right now.
SPEAKER_1: Welcome to StarTalk Radio.
SPEAKER_1: I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson.
SPEAKER_1: And I'm an astrophysicist at the American Museum of Natural History here in New York City, where I also serve as director of the Hayden Planetarium.
SPEAKER_1: And today's show is all about the science of sex.
SPEAKER_1: Sex, yeah, I said it.
SPEAKER_1: And to help me talk about the science of sex is the one and the only Kristen Schaal.
SPEAKER_1: Hello!
SPEAKER_1: Welcome, this is not like your first time on StarTalk Radio, it's like your third time.
SPEAKER_2: It's my, yeah, it's my third, fourth time.
SPEAKER_1: Fourth time.
SPEAKER_2: But also it's my first time one on one.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, mano y mano.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Right, right, excellent.
SPEAKER_2: So I get all your attention.
SPEAKER_1: Your complete attention, yeah.
SPEAKER_2: No more Alan Alda getting in there.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, it's just you and me.
SPEAKER_1: And now you're a comedian, so you're not really an expert on sex, except that, like you wrote a book called The Sexy Book of Sexy Sex.
SPEAKER_2: That's correct.
SPEAKER_2: You can get that on Amazon.
SPEAKER_1: Did you run out of words or something to continue the actual title of this book?
SPEAKER_2: Well, I just wanted people to get in there before they lost their horniness.
SPEAKER_2: So you get the message and then you start to read.
SPEAKER_1: And what size are these panties that you're wearing here?
SPEAKER_2: Oh, those are size teeny tiny.
SPEAKER_1: This is what you find hanging on the clothesline.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, they're real comfy though.
SPEAKER_2: They're coming back in.
SPEAKER_1: Are you wearing those now?
SPEAKER_2: Am I?
SPEAKER_1: What we also have is clips from an interview that I had with...
SPEAKER_2: Either Mary Roach or Dr.
SPEAKER_2: Ruth.
SPEAKER_1: It's both actually, but in this particular case, Mary Roach, and she wrote a book on sex, The Science of Sex.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, she's an expert as well.
SPEAKER_1: She came to my office at the museum and I interviewed her, and so we'll be slotting in clips from that interview.
SPEAKER_1: Let's go to this first clip here with Mary Roach.
SPEAKER_1: She's a journalist, essentially, but gets deep into stories, and she wanted to find out what motivated people to study sex in the first place, like in the lab.
SPEAKER_1: And it's just kind of weird to begin with, but the fact that it was done is what made her story.
SPEAKER_1: So let's check out our first clip of me interviewing Mary Roach in my office at the Hayden Planetarium talking about the science of sex.
SPEAKER_2: What a great day that was.
SPEAKER_1: This book bonk, that's audacious.
SPEAKER_3: The title?
SPEAKER_1: Everything, the title, the contents.
SPEAKER_3: It's about science.
SPEAKER_1: Science that legitimizes your effort to write entirely about sex.
SPEAKER_3: All you gotta do is put science on the cover.
SPEAKER_3: But even better, it's people studying sex in science labs.
SPEAKER_3: Masters and Johnson being an obvious example, physiology, arousal, orgasm, you gotta bring people into a lab.
SPEAKER_1: You gotta do it in the lab.
SPEAKER_3: You gotta do it in the lab.
SPEAKER_3: So that's a wonderfully awkward scenario which fascinated me, because sex is such an intimate and personal thing.
SPEAKER_3: But then again, it's the physiology and it's anatomy and somebody should study it.
SPEAKER_1: So why not just turn every porn set into a laboratory?
SPEAKER_1: Because they're professionals, right?
SPEAKER_3: Actually, that's not a good idea, because Masters and Johnson started out using sex professionals, but they found that they were too good at faking it.
SPEAKER_3: And they wanted someone who-
SPEAKER_1: It's hard for a guy to fake it.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, no, I know.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, so they can't be too professional, otherwise they're not-
SPEAKER_3: They wanted someone more representative of the average person, so.
SPEAKER_1: So you bring them into the lab.
SPEAKER_3: You bring them into the lab, and you wire them up, and you're studying whatever it is you're studying.
SPEAKER_3: I mean, not Masters-
SPEAKER_1: Wait, wait, wait, back up.
SPEAKER_3: Yep.
SPEAKER_1: What is the driving question, and what do you call these kind of scientists anyway, that would possibly want to know, that you can't just find out on your own?
SPEAKER_3: No, well-
SPEAKER_1: It sounds like a big excuse-
SPEAKER_1: For perverts to look at other people having sex.
SPEAKER_1: Go have your own damn sex.
SPEAKER_3: The reproductive system is as important to study as the digestive system.
SPEAKER_1: I'm not denying that.
SPEAKER_3: So you would want, I mean, you want to know how does erection happen and you want to understand orgasm.
SPEAKER_3: If you, it's because if the implications for fertility-
SPEAKER_1: I know how an erection happens.
SPEAKER_1: I don't need, I don't need somebody to tell me.
SPEAKER_1: I need somebody looking at me.
SPEAKER_1: Give me an example of a question they would pose.
SPEAKER_3: All right.
SPEAKER_1: And the experiment that they would conduct and the answer they would get.
SPEAKER_3: All right, what is the trigger for ejaculation?
SPEAKER_1: Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_1: Physiological trigger or visual trigger or-
SPEAKER_3: No, physiological.
SPEAKER_3: What is happening?
SPEAKER_3: Is the amount of-
SPEAKER_1: That'd be cool if you just look at something.
SPEAKER_3: Does it depend?
SPEAKER_1: That'd be really efficient.
SPEAKER_3: That would be.
SPEAKER_3: So, all right, is it the volume of material?
SPEAKER_3: Does it depend on how long since the last orgasm?
SPEAKER_3: I mean, you know-
SPEAKER_1: Measurement data.
SPEAKER_3: And the applications here are for people who have delayed ejaculation, which is sometimes sadly called retarded ejaculation.
SPEAKER_3: Okay, come too fast or too slow, whatever it is.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, so who are these people?
SPEAKER_1: What do they call themselves?
SPEAKER_1: Are they biologists, sexologists?
SPEAKER_3: Well, they used to use the word sexologists, but you don't hear that very much.
SPEAKER_1: So what do they call themselves?
SPEAKER_3: Physiologists, some are psychologists, anatomists.
SPEAKER_1: What have they concluded?
SPEAKER_3: You just have to go bi-bonk.
SPEAKER_1: You're not gonna give away the punch line.
SPEAKER_1: So, people studying sex in the lab.
SPEAKER_1: That's crazy.
SPEAKER_1: See, I used to think that lab work was you bring something in the lab that you didn't otherwise have access to.
SPEAKER_1: With some exotic creature, you grow something in a Petri dish, you do something that would not otherwise be available to you to deduce on your own.
SPEAKER_2: Well, you might not have access to other people's penises and vaginas.
SPEAKER_1: Clearly, but okay, but you have your own version of them.
SPEAKER_1: So, unless you're gonna look at the variation among them, maybe that's one of the things they do.
SPEAKER_2: Maybe, well, see, I think there should be more sex in labs because I was doing some research.
SPEAKER_1: Isn't that a great sentence?
SPEAKER_1: There should be more sex in labs.
SPEAKER_2: There should be more sex in labs, and I'm sure it's happening late nights anyways, but.
SPEAKER_1: The lab after hours.
SPEAKER_1: So, in your book, in your sexy book of sexy sex, this is a couple years old now, but what prompted you to write this?
SPEAKER_2: I had so much blue humor in my act that I was like, I might as well just put it all out there.
SPEAKER_1: And Rich Blomquist, who's that?
SPEAKER_2: That's my fiance.
SPEAKER_1: That was, was he still your fiance?
SPEAKER_2: He was my boyfriend, and the fact that we didn't break up after writing a book together is amazing.
SPEAKER_1: That's promising, yes, that's very good.
SPEAKER_1: And I notice here, you have some ambitious chapters here.
SPEAKER_1: So you have the future of sex.
SPEAKER_2: That's right.
SPEAKER_1: I don't even know what that means.
SPEAKER_2: Well, sex is gonna happen in the future.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, thank you.
SPEAKER_1: Thanks for clarifying that.
SPEAKER_1: And then you have the history of sex, okay?
SPEAKER_2: It happened in the past too.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, so we're good.
SPEAKER_1: That's two chapters, we got that covered.
SPEAKER_1: Regular sex.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, that's just like for the straight and narrow, you know, like just like heterosexual sex.
SPEAKER_1: It's the stuff approved by Good Housekeeping Seal, right?
SPEAKER_1: And you follow that with the gay chapter.
SPEAKER_1: Apparently that's not regular sex.
SPEAKER_2: No, now it's exciting.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_2: It will be soon, but it's still starting gay sex now.
SPEAKER_1: And the sex spurts only, what is that?
SPEAKER_2: Oh, that's like.
SPEAKER_1: Because if you're a sex spurt, then why would I need this book?
SPEAKER_2: Um, well, because there's a chapter about you.
SPEAKER_1: And there's another chapter here that got my attention.
SPEAKER_1: It was the dark side of sex, what is that?
SPEAKER_2: Oh, the dark side of sex.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, visuality, STDs, we go into the worst STD of all, which is the female stomach parasite, which is a baby.
SPEAKER_1: That's what it is, right?
SPEAKER_1: The baby is consuming your resources.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, and it's taking over your life.
SPEAKER_1: Wow.
SPEAKER_1: When we come back more with Kristen Schaal, as well as clips from an interview I had with Mary Roach, who wrote a book on sex, The Science of Sex, called Bulk.
SPEAKER_1: We'll be back in a moment.
SPEAKER_1: Welcome back to StarTalk Radio, I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson, and this is our show about sex.
SPEAKER_1: Since this topic is a little above my head, I bring in my all-purpose smart guy, Professor Charles Liu.
SPEAKER_1: Charles, welcome back to StarTalk.
SPEAKER_4: Hi, Neil, always a pleasure, thanks so much.
SPEAKER_1: Let me remind people, you're Professor of Astrophysics, not Professor of Sex, but you're well thought out on all manner of topics.
SPEAKER_1: You know, NASA has an official policy about sex in space that astronauts are expected to maintain a constant commitment to honorable behavior.
SPEAKER_4: Ah, I have some honorable behavior I would love to demonstrate for them in zero G.
SPEAKER_1: But there's a story circulating that some space shuttle astronauts tested 10 different sex positions.
SPEAKER_1: But NASA disavows all knowledge of such.
SPEAKER_4: Well, of course.
SPEAKER_1: They have to.
SPEAKER_1: But surely that's what any fertile people would want to test in space.
SPEAKER_4: A superb experiment.
SPEAKER_1: So in addition to the journalist Mary Roach and my co-host Kristen Schaal on that show, I also spoke with a well-known author, sex therapist, TV and radio personality, Dr.
SPEAKER_1: Ruth Westheimer.
SPEAKER_1: Yep, that's exactly what she sounds like.
SPEAKER_1: Let's hear what she has to say when I sat down with her to talk about sex.
SPEAKER_1: You taught for six years at Yale and at Princeton and in a few months you'll be teaching at Columbia.
SPEAKER_1: So you get around.
SPEAKER_5: I get around.
SPEAKER_5: I'm going to be 84.
SPEAKER_1: 84?
SPEAKER_1: That's the new 64.
SPEAKER_1: You know this.
SPEAKER_5: So I have been to your museums many times.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, the American Museum of Natural History.
SPEAKER_5: Next time I'm coming with my grandchildren, you will have to take me around.
SPEAKER_1: I will show you the cosmos as no one has before.
SPEAKER_5: Why like that?
SPEAKER_5: We have an age.
SPEAKER_1: And also apparently you tweet, ask Dr.
SPEAKER_1: Ruth if you want to find her online there.
SPEAKER_5: 50,712 people are following me, but guess what?
SPEAKER_1: But that number is bigger by the minute.
SPEAKER_5: Yes, now they're going to go and follow you too.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, no, now they'll all come together.
SPEAKER_1: This is the One Love Fest.
SPEAKER_1: Yes, you're also on the YouTube channel.
SPEAKER_1: And I have to get this in, maybe as a lead in to the topic of sex, I just learned in the green room with you that you're sponsoring a wine coming out.
SPEAKER_1: I love wine.
SPEAKER_5: Oh, I see it on your face.
SPEAKER_5: Here's the story.
SPEAKER_5: I always tell people, when you get home, have a glass of wine.
SPEAKER_5: But I tell them, careful, don't drink too much.
SPEAKER_5: Drink just a little bit to relax, to have some romantic thoughts in your brain.
SPEAKER_5: But not too much, because if you drink too much, she will fall asleep.
SPEAKER_5: And he, and you don't have to answer me if it's true, because I know better, he won't be able to perform.
SPEAKER_5: So I'm coming out with a wine, Van Damore.
SPEAKER_1: Van Damore, the wine of love.
SPEAKER_5: Be less alcohol, my face is on the cover, on the label, and it says less is more.
SPEAKER_5: It will be sold all over, and not just in liquor stores, because it's less alcohol, who knows?
SPEAKER_1: So it has the right amount of alcohol, so that the evening that begins romantically can end romantically.
SPEAKER_5: Exactly, and not disappointing for the woman, or for him.
SPEAKER_1: Speaking of what might disappoint a woman, this book you just came out with, Sexually Speaking, What Every Woman Needs to Know About Sexual Health.
SPEAKER_1: I was reading through this, I said, hey, this is some stuff guys can, hey, you know.
SPEAKER_1: I mean, how many men do you think will buy this?
SPEAKER_5: I think any men, listen carefully, Neil.
SPEAKER_1: I'm listening, I'm all.
SPEAKER_5: Any man who wants to be a good lover, and most men do want to be good lovers.
SPEAKER_1: I think so, they try.
SPEAKER_5: Is going to read it, because in today's world, the one thing that we know, there are less women who haven't heard the message, I'm not the only one who talks about sex, who haven't heard the message, that I keep on telling, day in and day out, a woman has to take the responsibility for her sexual satisfaction.
SPEAKER_5: On your program, can I say orgasm?
SPEAKER_1: Say it, go for it.
SPEAKER_5: Orgasm, say it also.
SPEAKER_1: Orgasm.
SPEAKER_5: You said it better than me, nice.
SPEAKER_5: So Neil, across this great country and Canada, there is no question, a woman has heard that she has to teach her husband, lover, whoever it is, even the best lover, even one trained by me, can't bring her to orgasm if she doesn't tell him what she needs.
SPEAKER_1: Because guys are idiots, basically.
SPEAKER_1: I can say that, because I'm a guy.
SPEAKER_1: We try, but it's complicated.
SPEAKER_5: It's complicated because it's hidden.
SPEAKER_1: It's hidden, it's like, wait, what's the...
SPEAKER_1: And so, no, this is good, and looking at the pages here, it's a primer on a woman's body and her own awareness of it.
SPEAKER_5: Yes, and there's no question that any man that I know or that you know, really doesn't want just to go bang, bang, thank you ma'am.
SPEAKER_5: They really want her to be satisfied.
SPEAKER_1: We want to be able to say, I satisfied.
SPEAKER_1: It's part of the bragging rights, I think, in the locker room, right?
SPEAKER_5: Yes, that you can do it, and then she wants more.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, she can come back for more.
SPEAKER_1: That's how that's gotta work.
SPEAKER_1: Let me just ask you some historical questions.
SPEAKER_1: We all remember you when you first came out on the radio, and you were saying things no one had said before.
SPEAKER_1: No one had the audacity to say, who even knows if the FCC had allowed it before?
SPEAKER_1: And so it had almost shock value.
SPEAKER_1: Not that that was your intent, but that certainly drew attention to it.
SPEAKER_1: Nowadays, there's skits on Saturday Night Live openly talking about orgasms and penises and vaginas.
SPEAKER_1: So how do you fit in now?
SPEAKER_5: I tell you what, it's true.
SPEAKER_5: In 1981, when I did the radio, sexually speaking on WYNY, first there were people, attorneys, three suits from NBC listening.
SPEAKER_5: Very shortly after, maybe after a couple of weeks, nobody came anymore.
SPEAKER_5: I did that program for 10 years.
SPEAKER_5: Every Sunday night from 10 to 12, I provided a lot of foreplay to people on Sunday nights who came coming back from the country.
SPEAKER_5: By the time they were home, they were nicely aroused now.
SPEAKER_5: It's true that I speak and spoke explicitly because I'm very well trained.
SPEAKER_5: I have a doctorate.
SPEAKER_5: I was seven years with a famous sex therapist at Cornell.
SPEAKER_1: And somebody's got to do it.
SPEAKER_5: That's true.
SPEAKER_5: Yeah, I was very fortunate because I'm very well trained and I am old-fashioned in the square.
SPEAKER_5: So while I'm explicit, I still want people to be married.
SPEAKER_5: See that?
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, be about 25 years.
SPEAKER_5: That's good.
SPEAKER_5: So I want people to have what's called in sociology, you know about that, a significant other.
SPEAKER_5: I want them to have somebody in their lives.
SPEAKER_5: What happens these days, and I'm teaching a course now at Columbia Teachers College.
SPEAKER_1: That's right, Teachers College, an important piece of Columbia there.
SPEAKER_5: Television and the media, all the media, even YouTube.
SPEAKER_5: What's happening right now is a little bit sad.
SPEAKER_5: I know that you need some sex in every program, but I don't need them to use the four-letter words.
SPEAKER_5: And I'm very sad even on Broadway, on some place.
SPEAKER_5: I don't want to mention which one.
SPEAKER_5: As if the English language had no other terminology, everything was the same.
SPEAKER_1: The moment you go to four-letter words, it's evidence that you ran out of vocabulary to express yourself.
SPEAKER_5: Exactly.
SPEAKER_5: Now you talk like a professor.
SPEAKER_5: I like that.
SPEAKER_5: Sex has to be part of it.
SPEAKER_5: I know that.
SPEAKER_5: But what's happening right now is a little bit going to the extreme.
SPEAKER_5: For example, I'm sitting in a taxi, and the advertisement on taxis are so eroticized that I'm fortunate I'm not having my grandchildren next to me.
SPEAKER_5: So we went a little bit overboard.
SPEAKER_5: On the other hand, there's a brand new book out.
SPEAKER_5: I'm sure that you have heard about it.
SPEAKER_5: I didn't hide it.
SPEAKER_5: A British woman wrote it.
SPEAKER_5: It's called Fifty Shades of Grey, and women love it.
SPEAKER_5: They devour it.
SPEAKER_5: And it's very interesting.
SPEAKER_5: In the olden days, the British mother used to tell her daughter, the Victorian Puritan mother, lie back and think of England.
SPEAKER_5: Nothing in it for you.
SPEAKER_5: Right now, there's a British woman.
SPEAKER_5: She writes beautifully, and it's very explicit.
SPEAKER_5: Very explicit.
SPEAKER_5: I don't want to have the guy...
SPEAKER_5: I don't want to have that guy in my practice, because I sent him to a psychiatrist, but that's a different story.
SPEAKER_5: But it's interesting.
SPEAKER_5: It proves the point, Professor.
SPEAKER_5: I have talked about that a long time.
SPEAKER_5: Women, first of all, need a longer time to be sexually aroused than a man.
SPEAKER_5: A man when he's aroused is aroused.
SPEAKER_5: A woman needs a longer time to get up off the curve of sexual arousal.
SPEAKER_5: And they used to say that women are not aroused by pictures or by...
SPEAKER_1: Or pornography.
SPEAKER_5: Or by sexually explicit material.
SPEAKER_5: Not so.
SPEAKER_5: Women right now are devouring that book.
SPEAKER_5: Which is a very interesting point in things have changed, but we have to find a middle way.
SPEAKER_1: So it's the freedom of women in society is what this is.
SPEAKER_1: That was an important step.
SPEAKER_5: That she can take the initiative.
SPEAKER_5: She can ask you, not you, because you're married, but anybody in your studio who is not married, she can say would you like to go for coffee.
SPEAKER_5: And if he says, no, I have to go home to wash my hair, then she can't fall to pieces.
SPEAKER_5: She just has to ask the next one.
SPEAKER_1: When we come back, more on the science of sex with my comedic co-host Kristen Schaal and the journalist and author Mary Roach.
SPEAKER_1: We'll see you in a moment.
SPEAKER_1: We're back on StarTalk, and I'm here with my guest and co-host for this episode, Kristen Schaal.
SPEAKER_1: We worked together before, I love her to death.
SPEAKER_1: So we also have clips from my interview with Mary Roach, who wrote the book, Bonk.
SPEAKER_1: Right, she's into one syllable, one word book titles, and she studied the science of sex.
SPEAKER_1: In this next clip, she mentioned some surprising facts about erections.
SPEAKER_3: Oh yes.
SPEAKER_3: The only other erectile tissue in the human body is in the nose.
SPEAKER_3: When you have a cold, you basically have a nose boner.
SPEAKER_3: You didn't know that.
SPEAKER_1: I did not know that.
SPEAKER_3: The nipples, that's a different erection system.
SPEAKER_3: That's muscle squeezing.
SPEAKER_3: That's not erectile tissue.
SPEAKER_3: That's a muscular erection of...
SPEAKER_1: You're saying it's not filling with blood?
SPEAKER_1: Isn't that what it is?
SPEAKER_3: The nipples, no.
SPEAKER_3: The nipples are little muscles squeezing it up right.
SPEAKER_1: I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_3: The nose, it's that spongy...
SPEAKER_1: Spongy that fills with blood.
SPEAKER_1: So people who have enlarged nose from the flu, they have nose erections.
SPEAKER_1: That's what you're telling me.
SPEAKER_3: Exactly.
SPEAKER_1: Okay.
SPEAKER_3: And okay, here's another good...
SPEAKER_1: So the nipples is just muscles...
SPEAKER_3: Muscles, yeah, like contracting to squeeze it and push it up.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, why are they contracting?
SPEAKER_1: What value is that to...
SPEAKER_3: Oh, I don't know the answer to that.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, I don't know why when it's cold, they do that.
SPEAKER_1: When it's cold or aroused, which is two really different things, right?
SPEAKER_3: Yes, exactly.
SPEAKER_3: Well, I would imagine it has to do with suckling, with breastfeeding.
SPEAKER_3: Like it helps the child to find the nipple.
SPEAKER_3: If you're manipulating the nipple and then it gets erect, then it's easier to find.
SPEAKER_1: And it's easiest for your sexual arousal system to be brought to bear when you're breastfeeding so that you can feed the child and want to do so again and again.
SPEAKER_3: Right.
SPEAKER_1: Otherwise the child dies.
SPEAKER_3: Right, so that makes sense.
SPEAKER_1: And so your sexual arousal system is a really convenient system to tap when you're breastfeeding.
SPEAKER_3: Yeah, when you're talking about something, life and death, passing on your genetic material, like that.
SPEAKER_1: Right, right, okay.
SPEAKER_3: It's a handy reinforcing system.
SPEAKER_1: So give me another top tidbit.
SPEAKER_3: Okay, here's one.
SPEAKER_3: Women have nocturnal erections in the same sort of cycle as men.
SPEAKER_3: Little, tiny, little clitoral erections.
SPEAKER_3: And that somebody wired up a fairly large clitoris with a strain gauge, figured it out, brought them into a lab.
SPEAKER_1: Now here's one.
SPEAKER_1: Tell me the difference between an erection that's sexually aroused and one that's just there, that has no correspondence with sex at all.
SPEAKER_3: One that's just there?
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Is it possible for the body to just do it without stimulus, because it's just three in the afternoon?
SPEAKER_3: Well, not like a nocturnal.
SPEAKER_1: Well, I don't know.
SPEAKER_3: That's one theory that I've heard is it's just sort of the body making sure everything's still working.
SPEAKER_3: It doesn't really like just, you know, in the same way that you turn on a 1964 Mustang every six months to make sure it's like, just turn it on and make sure everything.
SPEAKER_1: Pulmonary system, check.
SPEAKER_3: Check.
SPEAKER_1: Sexual arousal, check.
SPEAKER_1: Did you know this about your nipples?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, I figured.
SPEAKER_2: Cause I think in caveman times too, when the ladies were out and they were cold, maybe they could get a guy to give them a hug.
SPEAKER_2: Before they even bit in fire.
SPEAKER_1: So tell me more about your book.
SPEAKER_1: What is like the funniest sex jokes you had told that they had to end up in the book?
SPEAKER_2: Well, the funniest thing, I don't even know if it's funny anymore, but there is, no, there's some monologues in there.
SPEAKER_2: Cause you know, the vagina monologues?
SPEAKER_1: I've never actually seen the vagina monologue.
SPEAKER_2: Oh really?
SPEAKER_1: No, I was not drawn to them.
SPEAKER_2: Cause you know everything about vaginas, it's like, boring.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, I'll put it on my list.
SPEAKER_2: Okay, great.
SPEAKER_2: So, Neil, I watched the vagina monologues and I was so inspired.
SPEAKER_2: There are so many other body parts that were ashamed of.
SPEAKER_2: So I wrote the taintologues.
SPEAKER_1: Which is?
SPEAKER_2: Which is the taint.
SPEAKER_1: What is the taint?
SPEAKER_2: Okay, so it ain't your penis and it ain't your anus, it's your taint.
SPEAKER_2: It's that area between the two.
SPEAKER_2: The two, is this really an education for me and you?
SPEAKER_2: Because that is so exciting.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, so what do you say about that?
SPEAKER_2: Oh, you know, let's just talk about different monologues about different women and how they experienced their taint.
SPEAKER_1: So it's an insight into their taintitude.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_2: And also like, you know, the shackles of society puts on the taint and stuff like that.
SPEAKER_1: I know, I didn't know before that.
SPEAKER_2: Also in different cultures it has different names.
SPEAKER_2: Like in Montreal, it's called like the gooch.
SPEAKER_2: So don't do the taint-a-log in Montreal because they're just like, ah.
SPEAKER_1: Is that because they're French or because they're Canadian?
SPEAKER_2: They're not fake French, but they do like to create their own language.
SPEAKER_2: I will say that.
SPEAKER_1: So are you gonna tell me your funniest joke that was in here?
SPEAKER_2: I don't know.
SPEAKER_1: And who illustrated this?
SPEAKER_1: This is like full color illustrations in here.
SPEAKER_2: Oh yeah, you wanna see something beautiful.
SPEAKER_1: Why is this censored?
SPEAKER_2: That's by order of the Texas Board of Education.
SPEAKER_2: That's the female anatomy through the years.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, we can walk through this.
SPEAKER_2: So this is biblical times.
SPEAKER_2: They didn't know what was going on in there.
SPEAKER_2: So there's some angels, I guess, just hit with a bell.
SPEAKER_1: Well, this is inside the womb of the woman.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, this is the female anatomy through history.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, so angels are making babies.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, they were like, that's what's going on in there.
SPEAKER_2: I don't know.
SPEAKER_1: So, panel two.
SPEAKER_2: Lower Earth, so this is 1000 to 1959.
SPEAKER_2: They just thought, who knows?
SPEAKER_1: 1959.
SPEAKER_2: Who knows?
SPEAKER_2: And then Free Love, that's the sexual revolution.
SPEAKER_1: That's the sixties.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, just rainbows.
SPEAKER_2: And then now that they're still not really going into it.
SPEAKER_2: That's what I mean.
SPEAKER_2: There's a lot going on.
SPEAKER_2: The female anatomy and even like, this is not sexy, but like, healthcare wise for females, it's really atrocious.
SPEAKER_2: Like, there's things that we need in hospitals and with our daily checkups that we don't have that's just not covered by insurance.
SPEAKER_1: Do you think it's because men had run everything and so they're not even thinking about the woman?
SPEAKER_2: I do, I do.
SPEAKER_2: I think so, don't you?
SPEAKER_1: No, it could be.
SPEAKER_1: I'm just saying, there's bias built into society.
SPEAKER_1: That affects this.
SPEAKER_2: It's a big problem.
SPEAKER_2: We need to have ultrasounds every checkup with the gynecologist, but insurance won't cover that.
SPEAKER_2: Some of us will have tumors growing that we don't know about.
SPEAKER_2: That's not funny or funny at all.
SPEAKER_1: We can end that segment on tumors growing inside your body.
SPEAKER_1: Kristen, when we come back, more with Kristen Schaal and her book, The Sexy Book of Sexy Sex, and from my pre-recorded interview with Mary Roach talking about the science of sex.
SPEAKER_1: Welcome back to StarTalk Radio.
SPEAKER_1: I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson, your host, and Kristen Schaal.
SPEAKER_2: Your co-host.
SPEAKER_1: Your co-host.
SPEAKER_1: And we've got clips from my interview with Mary Roach.
SPEAKER_1: She's a prolific writer of many topics that she studies in depth, and this one was The Science of Sex.
SPEAKER_1: People just doing research in the lab.
SPEAKER_1: And that last clip, we talked about surprising facts about erections.
SPEAKER_1: You talk much about erections in your book?
SPEAKER_2: Oh, yeah, definitely, especially about erectile dysfunction.
SPEAKER_1: Really, what do you say about it?
SPEAKER_2: Just that you should kill yourself if you have it, I think.
SPEAKER_2: No, I think we have-
SPEAKER_1: That's why there's medicine.
SPEAKER_1: Because I think, you know, the frontier of sexual research, as Mary Roach will tell us in the next clip, might be through medications, through pharmaceuticals.
SPEAKER_1: And look at all the other things we enhance in life by chemically-induced forces, right?
SPEAKER_1: I mean, if you're a little sleeping, you wanna be awake, pump yourself with caffeine.
SPEAKER_1: You wanna lift high, heavy weights, you get steroids.
SPEAKER_1: You want, get the red out of your eye, you use, you know, Visine or whatever is the brand.
SPEAKER_2: That's a chemical?
SPEAKER_1: Everything we put in our body is a chemical.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, man.
SPEAKER_1: That's what it's all about.
SPEAKER_1: We're just a sack of chemicals.
SPEAKER_2: We're just gonna be adapting to the chemicals.
SPEAKER_1: So it's we and the chemicals together that makes the life that we lead.
SPEAKER_1: And so why wouldn't that also play out with regard to sex?
SPEAKER_1: So let's find out what Mary Roach says about the frontier of sexual research in chemistry.
SPEAKER_2: Give it to me, Roach.
SPEAKER_1: Is there still a frontier of sexual research that is beyond what has been done so far?
SPEAKER_3: Well, these days it tends to be pharmaceutical stuff like looking for a pill for post-menopausal women with flagging libido.
SPEAKER_3: That's where all the money is now.
SPEAKER_3: Of course, right.
SPEAKER_3: It isn't a female Viagra, because obviously Viagra has to do with vasodilation and women don't need an erection.
SPEAKER_1: But metaphorically, it's the same.
SPEAKER_3: It has to do with sex drive and libido.
SPEAKER_3: That's what they're looking for.
SPEAKER_3: Viagra is more for a performance.
SPEAKER_1: Here's what I wonder.
SPEAKER_1: If your libido drops and you're just less interested in sex, what's your incentive to bring it back?
SPEAKER_1: What do you care?
SPEAKER_1: Just have less sex.
SPEAKER_3: Your husband wants you to.
SPEAKER_1: Oh, so it's a mismatch.
SPEAKER_3: It's a mismatch, right.
SPEAKER_3: And especially now that there's Viagra, because it used to be maybe there's a little bit of harmony and advancing years, and now you bring Viagra in.
SPEAKER_1: And not a man's ready at any time of day.
SPEAKER_3: That's right, and the woman's like, oh my God.
SPEAKER_1: For at least four hours at a time.
SPEAKER_3: At least that's right.
SPEAKER_3: Or it can be upsetting if you're somebody who used to have a really healthy libido and you think this is part of who I am, and all of a sudden you just don't think about sex anymore and maybe that's something you want to change.
SPEAKER_1: There it is.
SPEAKER_1: Do you mention Viagra in here?
SPEAKER_2: No, this is a joke book.
SPEAKER_1: So how about women who lose their sexual drive?
SPEAKER_1: What's your opinion about that?
SPEAKER_2: When they're older?
SPEAKER_2: I don't really have one, because I'm like 19, but.
SPEAKER_1: You're still in the zone.
SPEAKER_1: In your sexual zone.
SPEAKER_2: Oh yeah, I'm probably at my peak right now.
SPEAKER_2: Also, I've never had sex, so no.
SPEAKER_1: I mean, I'm just curious.
SPEAKER_1: You heard my question that I asked Mary.
SPEAKER_1: I said, if you're not interested, then what do you care?
SPEAKER_2: And she said it's for the husband.
SPEAKER_1: For the husband.
SPEAKER_1: Because the husband's like chasing after you after they take the Viagra.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, and then don't they always just divorce you and then go get the younger lady?
SPEAKER_2: That's all I've witnessed.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, so if all the women got together and said, we will not do that, that will never happen ever again.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah, it takes two to tango.
SPEAKER_2: Ugh, you know what?
SPEAKER_2: Women are our worst enemies.
SPEAKER_2: Man.
SPEAKER_2: That is true.
SPEAKER_1: You guys do this.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, we do.
SPEAKER_2: It's true.
SPEAKER_1: So if we find a chemical that'll make women aroused when they wouldn't otherwise be, and then you have Viagra, then do you worry that the future of the world, everyone is just having sex?
SPEAKER_1: And then the economy collapses?
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, I hope it does.
SPEAKER_1: Maybe that's why the economy's collapsing now.
SPEAKER_2: Women asbest.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, I watched my mouth.
SPEAKER_2: Well, oh, okay, so about that with the women, you know, getting their groove on later in life, I think that's probably really nice because it does establish intimacy among the two people that might be lost at that time.
SPEAKER_1: Plus, you know what I heard, that in nursing homes, like VD is on the rise.
SPEAKER_2: I know, right?
SPEAKER_1: Like, wow, forget the VD, because they're not gonna die of that.
SPEAKER_2: I know, yeah, good for them.
SPEAKER_1: Plus, the guys die before the women, generally, right?
SPEAKER_1: So if you do the statistics on this, you have two distributions, right?
SPEAKER_1: Your life expectancy.
SPEAKER_1: And so the women outlive the men, all right?
SPEAKER_1: So as you get older, more men die relative to the women who are left.
SPEAKER_1: So every increment of month that the man stays alive, there are fewer of them for all the women who are still alive.
SPEAKER_1: So you go to nursing homes, you could be one guy out of 100 women.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, it's a hot number.
SPEAKER_2: But then maybe there's some women on women action at that point.
SPEAKER_1: So the lesbian forces will rise.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: I don't know.
SPEAKER_1: I mean, I haven't, you know, I just, I haven't.
SPEAKER_2: You haven't experienced.
SPEAKER_1: Haven't done the lab research on that.
SPEAKER_2: Tureatric lesbian relationships in nursing homes.
SPEAKER_1: That's a whole unexplored territory right there.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, but it will be after this podcast.
SPEAKER_1: When we come back more on The Science of Sex.
SPEAKER_1: Welcome back to StarTalk Radio.
SPEAKER_1: In studio now with me is Professor Charles Liu.
SPEAKER_1: Smart dude all around.
SPEAKER_1: You know, in the previous segment, I talked with Mary Roach and Kristen Schaal about pharmaceuticals like Viagra as the frontier of sexual research.
SPEAKER_1: You're not ready for Viagra yet, no?
SPEAKER_1: Nevermind.
SPEAKER_1: Okay, see what Dr.
SPEAKER_1: Ruth had to say on that issue.
SPEAKER_5: Any man who asks his doctor, don't ever take one from a friend.
SPEAKER_5: You have to get a prescription from a doctor.
SPEAKER_5: Anybody who the doctor says you can take it, I have nothing against any of these pills.
SPEAKER_5: However, an important point on your program.
SPEAKER_5: Here's a man taking that pill.
SPEAKER_5: He now has an erection from the floor to the ceiling.
SPEAKER_1: He comes home.
SPEAKER_1: I'll take your word for it.
SPEAKER_5: He comes home and he says to his wife, hop into bed, because he thinks it's the last.
SPEAKER_5: He thinks it's the last erection of his life.
SPEAKER_5: He forgot her birthday.
SPEAKER_5: He forgot to bring flowers on Valentine's Day.
SPEAKER_5: If there's a sports event in our culture, for three days he hasn't talked to her.
SPEAKER_5: He was watching television.
SPEAKER_1: Beer and chips in front of the TV.
SPEAKER_5: Everybody here in your studio who watches you knows what that wife is going to say to her husband what to do with that erection.
SPEAKER_5: So, I'm all for help if it's needed only by prescription.
SPEAKER_5: I'm not a medical doctor, but the relationship is the most important part.
SPEAKER_1: And that's an underappreciated fact.
SPEAKER_1: And can you comment, you know, before the pill, you know, the pill was considered a transitional point in the freedom of women.
SPEAKER_1: Before the pill, we have this sort of this stereotype, and I don't think it's correct, that people like never had sex, you know, until they married, and then they had sex to have kids.
SPEAKER_1: And but only after the pill did we separate the sex from the procreation.
SPEAKER_1: But surely, I mean, sex is free, it's fun, it's easy.
SPEAKER_1: And so do you have any sense that the frequency with which people are having sex has changed over the years?
SPEAKER_5: First of all, it has changed because of work situations.
SPEAKER_5: You don't work any more 12 hours like some people used to.
SPEAKER_5: You work eight hours.
SPEAKER_1: That means there's more time in the 24-hour day.
SPEAKER_5: The other thing is, no question that the pill has drastically changed the whole mechanism, the whole attitude, everything in terms of women having control and in terms of not having to worry about an unintended pregnancy.
SPEAKER_5: We still have some unintended pregnancies, but not like before.
SPEAKER_5: The pill has changed drastically.
SPEAKER_5: Some maybe not so good side effects of sex during lunch with not your partner or something like that.
SPEAKER_5: It's also part of it, but in general, it has changed.
SPEAKER_1: That's the limit of the freedom, where it's the extreme expression of the freedom.
SPEAKER_5: And some people, and even today, decide not to be sexually active, either if they are religious or for values or for beliefs.
SPEAKER_1: Some philosophy.
SPEAKER_5: Right.
SPEAKER_5: Or Catholics, and to them, I say, be sexually literate.
SPEAKER_5: But use it when you have decided to use it.
SPEAKER_1: I like that phrase, be sexually literate, because I spend my life trying to teach people to be scientifically literate, but there are these other literacies.
SPEAKER_1: That's important literacy.
SPEAKER_1: Otherwise, it can mess you up in the head.
SPEAKER_1: So, in your book, The Sexy Book of Sexy Sex, did you talk about the Mile High?
SPEAKER_2: Oh, the Mile High Club.
SPEAKER_1: What do you say about that?
SPEAKER_2: Oh, well, the Mile High Club is a short story about a real thing where when you have sex in an airplane, you join the Mile High Club.
SPEAKER_1: As everyone does, of course.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah, in the bathroom, because there's so much room.
SPEAKER_1: And wait a minute, I have an issue with the Mile High Club.
SPEAKER_1: Planes don't fly a mile high.
SPEAKER_1: They fly way higher, no plane is flying a mile high unless it's coming in for a landing.
SPEAKER_2: Well, these are civilians calling it that.
SPEAKER_2: These are loose, slutty civilians.
SPEAKER_1: These are people who don't get the data straight.
SPEAKER_1: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Do you realize in the stadium in Denver, which is Mile High City, it's Mile High Stadium, and there is a row of seats that are painted a different color that are at 5,280 feet above sea level.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, that's cool.
SPEAKER_2: Did you sit in them?
SPEAKER_1: No, I didn't, because I'd never been to the stadium.
SPEAKER_1: But if you actually went there, had sex, you'd be in the Mile High Club.
SPEAKER_2: That's cool.
SPEAKER_1: Everyone in Denver is in the Mile High Club.
SPEAKER_2: Everyone that had sex on that.
SPEAKER_1: Well, presumably people having sex in Denver, right?
SPEAKER_1: No, I'm from there.
SPEAKER_1: The stadium is not on the top of a mountain.
SPEAKER_1: It's in the Rockies.
SPEAKER_1: The average elevation is about a mile high.
SPEAKER_1: So everybody in these high cities are in the Mile High Club.
SPEAKER_1: You don't need an airplane or cramped bathrooms.
SPEAKER_1: I'm just saying.
SPEAKER_2: Well, now you just ruined that short story.
SPEAKER_2: No, that's okay.
SPEAKER_2: Well, anyway.
SPEAKER_1: It's the data.
SPEAKER_2: It's a real club.
SPEAKER_1: So, Kristen, I think we have to close down shop.
SPEAKER_2: Yeah.
SPEAKER_1: Well, thanks for being my guest.
SPEAKER_1: You've been listening to StarTalk Radio.
SPEAKER_1: I'm your host, Neil deGrasse Tyson.
SPEAKER_1: And I thank Kristen Schaal for being on the show.
SPEAKER_1: I thank the clips that we shared with Mary Roach.
SPEAKER_1: And of course, the one, the only, and the inimitable Dr.
SPEAKER_1: Ruth Westheimer.
SPEAKER_1: Find us on the web at startalkradio.net.
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SPEAKER_1: So I'm Neil deGrasse Tyson signing off.
SPEAKER_1: As always, what shall we do?
SPEAKER_2: We should look to the stars and ride off to Saturn.
SPEAKER_1: In fewer syllables, as always, keep looking up.
SPEAKER_2: Oh, that's easier.